11

I am making a cable to connect two boards as shown in the image below:

board image

The cable will be around 25 cm long and will be in an electrically noisy environment (consider 220 VAC house wiring lines touching it physically). Cable will have a PVC sleeve on top. Both boards will be in a non-earthed plastic housing. One of the boards will have an ac-DC PSU circuit that generates 5V 1A.

The cable carries the following signals: GND, 5 V (1 A max), UART (3.3 V, 9600 baud) Tx and Rx, three relay signals (signals are 3.3 V logic and meant to drive the transistor that in turn will drive the relay).

I need some help understanding what would be the right cable design for this application. The below image shows my current idea:

wire spec

My questions are as follows:

  1. Do I need the mylar + aluminium foil shield? Is that going to help me?

  2. If I use the foil shield, should I connect it to GND signal.

  3. If I am using the shield, is the above drawing optimal? Or should I do separate shielding for any signal as well? For ex - [UART tx and rx in a shiled] + [All remaining signals]. And then another shield to cover this combination. Ultimately both shields will touch but there will be a shield foil between UART and other signals.

  4. Is 28 AWG copper wire conductor good enough for 5 V, 1 A power? Or do I need to use a thicker wire?

Whiskeyjack
  • 8,286
  • 9
  • 58
  • 99
  • 100-150 mV drop shouldn't be a problem. – Whiskeyjack Nov 14 '23 at 13:03
  • With the information you provided (single ended 3.3 V signalling, plastic housings), shielding the cable is probably not going to buy you anything. – SteveSh Nov 14 '23 at 13:11
  • Can you provide some details on 1) your UART receivers and 2) your PCB construction (number of layers, any ground planes, etc). – SteveSh Nov 14 '23 at 13:12
  • 3
    In calculating you voltage drop, remember to use the out and back length, so 50 cm in your case. If you can tolerate the voltage drop, 28 AWG copper should be OK. – SteveSh Nov 14 '23 at 13:17
  • Both UART receivers are ARM cortex M0 microcontrollers from Nuvoton. Nothing special. Just Tx and Rx connected. Maybe I will place a small resistor in series on both lines to damp ringing if I observe any. One PCB is 2 layer, other one is 4 layer. Both have a ground plane. 4 layer pcb has a full dedicated one. 2 layer has a localized one near the MCU. – Whiskeyjack Nov 14 '23 at 13:25
  • Is there any reason the relay drive lines have to go down this cable? Is there no way to send on/off signals down the comms channel? – jonathanjo Nov 14 '23 at 14:04
  • You really should have something between your cable and the mains wires to prevent the possibility of the wires abrading each other, IMO. – Andrew Morton Nov 14 '23 at 14:21
  • @AndrewMorton - all conductors will go in a PVC sleeve. On top of that, a nylon braid to give some additional protection and an aesthetic feel to it. All of it will be flame-retardant material. – Whiskeyjack Nov 14 '23 at 14:32
  • When you say "relay-N", what are these signals? Are these driving coils, or driven by contacts? – Tim Williams Nov 14 '23 at 14:43
  • Is there anything else connected to either board? I assume at least a power input to one of them. Anything on the other? – Tim Williams Nov 14 '23 at 14:47
  • 220 VAC power input on one. Regular UI of LEDs and buttons on the second one and a wireless zigbee chip (2.4 GHz). – Whiskeyjack Nov 14 '23 at 15:02
  • If it got radio too then that adds another noise source. And it also means that you end up in "RED" directive EMC ( ETSI 300 328 and so on) and not just the regular "walk in the park" EMC. – Lundin Nov 14 '23 at 15:08
  • @Lundin - I am currently using a pre-certified module similar to ESP8266 modules, following the best practices and calling it a day. I currently lack the right knowledge and experience to do anything better. I will read about it and consult someone if it is an absolute necessity. Thanks for pointing it out. – Whiskeyjack Nov 14 '23 at 15:16
  • 3
    Pre-certification only applies to compliance with the Zigbee standard, not to EMC and radio testing. – Lundin Nov 14 '23 at 15:21
  • 10
    The first diagram looks like it was drawn by MC Escher. – Theodore Nov 14 '23 at 22:26
  • 2
    Not to contradict the experts, but I wonder if perhaps people are overthinking this. It's a ~10 inch cable carrying low-speed digital signals, and the only outside interference is some nearby house wiring. Unless I missed something, it's not clear from the question and comments that this is a commercial product at all, much less something with stringent requirements for EMC. I would be surprised if there are any problems. If you're worried, add a checksum to your UART messages (which you're probably doing anyway) and call it a day. This is not a harsh environment for electronics. – Adam Haun Nov 14 '23 at 22:38
  • @Theodore - Nah. Probably came out of a mechanical CAD tool. A lot of our mechanical drawings look lie that. – SteveSh Nov 15 '23 at 01:17
  • 1
    @AdamHaun I agree. I wouldn't do this for a commercial product, but I've seen it done on a commercial product, and it can be made to work. The biggest risk is coupled transients damaging the logic level interfaces, but this can be dealt with using an RC filter (or TVS diodes). But they should really take the time to do it properly. – Jon Nov 15 '23 at 12:19
  • One of the issues we are having is that the problem is ill-defined. Op says that "[the cable] will be in an electrically noisy environment (consider 220 VAC house wiring lines touching it physically)." This really doesn't tell us anything. What we need is something like a field strength vs frequency plot, like you see in EMC requirements documents. Then you have a chance at doing an analysis, rather then just waving your hands. – SteveSh Nov 15 '23 at 12:28
  • @SteveSh - apologies if I was not clear. I felt that's the most accurate description I can give without confusing the readers. The product is a smart switch. It is a 2 enclosure design. Enclosure-1 has power supply and relays and it sits inside the gang box. Enclosure-2 is the switch interface (consider buttons, LEDs etc with 2.4 GHz zigbee module) that sits on top of the gang box. The cable in question connects the two enclosures. There will be 220 VAC wires in the gang box (connecting to light, fan etc) and will be touching my communication cable. – Whiskeyjack Nov 15 '23 at 13:25
  • 1
    @SteveSh I figured someone took one image of a board and connector, and rotated 180°, without realizing the perspective gets warped. – Theodore Nov 15 '23 at 17:15
  • You may be right. If you picked up on that, your eyes are a lot better than mine! – SteveSh Nov 15 '23 at 17:21
  • @Theodore, steveSh - yeah that's exactly what I did. :-) – Whiskeyjack Nov 15 '23 at 17:37