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I'm trying to follow Goldstein's Classical Mechanics book and stuck in the part of velocity-dependent potentials. I'm so confused what velocity-dependent potentials means.

Question 1

Based on my understandings, the definition of the potential $V$ is originated from that of conservative system, namely $$ \vec{F}=-\nabla V(\vec{r}) $$ is valid when the system is conservative. In other words, the line integral of $\vec{F} \cdot d\vec{l}$ is path-independent.

But velocity-dependent potential means the potential $V$ is the function of not only positions, but also velocities, implies the system is not conservative (e.g. drag force). I understand intuitively, but I dont get it how we can use the terminology "potential". It looks contradiction to me because the potential is basically based on the property of the conservative system as mentioned before. For the same reason, I'm not sure the equation $\vec{F}=-\nabla V(\vec{x},\vec{v})$ is acceptable.

Question 2

How can we prove that the following two propositions are equivalent?

  1. the system is conservative.

  2. the potential is not a function of generalized velocity.

This question is regarding the proof of $\frac{\partial V}{\partial\dot{q}}=0$ for the conservative system.

I think I have a fundamental misunderstanding about potential.

Qmechanic
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Jhn
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2 Answers2

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I think the concept of velocity dependent potential is introduced specifically to accomodate the Lorentz force. The Lorentz force acts perpendicular to the instantaneous velocity, which means that although the Lorentz force does have a physical effect there is no change of kinetic energy.

Cleonis
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In order to accomodate generalized coordinates, suppose that the Lagrangian has the form $$ L(q, \dot q, t)=\frac{1}{2}m_{ij}(q)\dot{q}^i\dot{q}^j-U(q,\dot{q},t). $$ The first term is also denoted $T(q,\dot{q})$. Let $\delta_i:=\delta/\delta q^i$ denote the Euler--Lagrange derivative. Then $$ \delta_i T=-m_{ik}(q)\left(\ddot{q}^k+\Gamma^{k}_{jl}(q)\dot{q}^j\dot{q}^l\right)=-m_{ik}A^k, $$ where $A^k:=\ddot{q}^k+\Gamma^k_{ij}(q)\dot{q}^i\dot{q}^j$, while $$ \delta_i U=\frac{\partial U}{\partial q^i}-\frac{d}{dt}\frac{\partial U}{\partial \dot{q}^i}=-Q_i, $$ where $Q_i$ is the so-called generalized force. So the EL equation $\delta_iL\approx 0$ is equal to the generalized Newton equation $$ Q_i = m_{ij}A^j,\qquad Q_i=-\delta_iU. $$


1. Classical potentials do not necessarily imply conservativity.

Let $U=U(q,t)$, i.e. it does not depend on the velocity. Then $\delta_i U=\partial U/\partial q^i$. Let $$ \frac{d L}{dt}=\frac{\partial L}{\partial t}+\delta_i L\dot{q}^i + \frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot{q}^i}\dot{q}^i\right), $$ so if we set $$ E(q,\dot{q},t):=\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}^i}\dot{q}^i-L(q,\dot{q},t)=\frac{1}{2}m_{ij}(q)\dot{q}^i\dot{q}^j+U(q,t), $$ whenever the equations of motion hold, we have $$ \frac{dE}{dt}=-\frac{\partial L}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial U}{\partial t}, $$ i.e. the total energy is not conserved, but the forces are still derived from a potential, as $Q_i=-\partial U/\partial q^i$. Conservation of energy also necessitates that $U=U(q)$, i.e. the potential does not depend on $t$ explicitly.

2. The case with velocity dependent potentials.

First note that for Newton-like equations where the velocity-dependent potential $U(q,\dot{q},t)$ is to be interpreted as a potential, the EL derivative $\delta_i U$ should not depend on $\ddot{q}^i$. This implies the constraint $$ U(q,\dot{q},t)=V(q,t)+W_i(q,t)\dot{q}^i, $$ i.e. it is an affine function of the velocity, so we have a scalar potential $V$ and a vector potential $W_i$. This will lead to a Lorentz-like force. The energy function now takes the form $$ E(q,\dot{q},t) = \frac{1}{2}m_{ij}(q)\dot{q}^i\dot{q}^j+ V(q,t) $$ again, i.e. the vector potential does not contribute to the energy function. We still have the relation $$ \frac{dE}{dt}=-\frac{\partial L}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial U}{\partial t}=\frac{\partial V}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial W_i}{\partial t}\dot{q}^i. $$

So the energy function is conserved on solutions if and only if both $V$ and $W_i$ are time-independent, i.e. $U=U(q,\dot{q})=V(q)+W_i(q)\dot{q}^i$. In this case we can still talk about a conservative system, since energy is conserved.

Bence Racskó
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