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Two masses (indicated as 1 and 2) of value $m$ are connected by a spring with an elastic constant $k$ and a natural length $l_0 = 0$, as shown in the figure.

enter image description here

Initially, the two masses are separated by a distance of $3d$. From that position, they are released with no initial velocity. Since $l_0=0$, the spring compresses, bringing the two masses together.

After some time, the two masses are at a distance $d$ from each other, and both have kinetic energy, as shown in the figure.

enter image description here

The principle of energy conservation states that $\Delta E = W_\mathrm{NCF}$, $\Delta K = W_\mathrm{all}$, and $\Delta U = - W_\mathrm{CF}$, where $E$ is the mechanical energy, $W_\mathrm{NCF}$ is the work done by non-conservative forces (both internal and external), $K$ is the kinetic energy, $W_\mathrm{NCF}$ is the work done by all forces (both internal and external), $U$ is the potential energy, and $W_\mathrm{CF}$ is the work done by conservative forces (again, both internal and external).

The only non-conservative force acting on this system is the normal force exerted by the floor. However, this force does no work because it is perpendicular to the direction of motion, and thus the mechanical energy must be conserved: $\Delta E = 0$.

This is not the case for the kinetic and potential energies, as one is transformed into the other. Therefore, we have $\Delta K > 0$, and there must be work done by conservative forces because, as I previously said, the normal force does no work.

The Question

The question is simple:

(Q1) Which forces do work to give the masses kinetic energy?

I have reviewed answers to other questions, but the matter is still not entirely clear to me. In particular, I found comments and ideas in the following posts:

What I've Thought So Far

(1) Considering the System $\left( 1, 2 \right)$

Things are clear in this case. The forces acting on the masses are their weights (which do no work), the normal forces exerted by the floor (which do no work), and the elastic force of the spring, as shown in the picture. All these forces are external (there are no internal forces) and both the weight and the elastic force are conservative.

In this case, the forces that do work are clearly the elastic forces that bring the masses towards the center of the spring.

(2) Considering the System $\left( 1, 2, \mathrm{spring} \right)$

If the spring is considered to be part of the system, then the elastic forces are internal and play no role in the conservation of linear and angular momentum. They do, however, play a role in the conservation of energy.

The problem is that if the spring is considered as part of the system, there are four internal elastic forces. The first one is the force that the spring applies to mass 1 $\mathbf{F}_{\mathrm{e}1}$, the second one is its reaction $-\mathbf{F}_{\mathrm{e}1}$ (the force that mass 1 applies to the spring), the third one is the force that the spring applies to mass 2 $\mathbf{F}_{\mathrm{e}2}$, and the fourth one is its reaction $-\mathbf{F}_{\mathrm{e}2}$. All of this is shown in the following picture.

enter image description here

Now, the total work done by the internal elastic forces is zero because there are equal and opposite forces on each side of the spring. Since they move in the same direction, their work cancels out.

This, however, cannot be correct because there is a change in kinetic energy, so work must be done (either by internal or external forces).

(Q2) In this picture, should the reaction forces acting on the spring be considered as part of the system? If not, this case is basically the same as the case for the other system but with the elastic forces as internal forces.

(Q3) If the elastic forces acting on the spring should not be considered, why would that be?

Qmechanic
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4 Answers4

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There is no kinetic energy change in the second system (1,2, spring). So there is no net work done, so no need to ask which external forces that do the work.

The constituent particles of the system do change their kinetic energies since energies are being converted within the system, but the system as a whole does not gain kinetic energy. Meaning, the system as a whole does not move. It deforms and changes shape on the spot without translating. More specifically, it is the centre of mass that does not move.

In the case of system (1,2) I agree with your analysis. Here it is the elastic forces that do the work on the system.

Steeven
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1.The forces which gives masses their kinetic energy are the internal restoring force of the spring which is present at the time when spring is pulled apart.These forces slowly decreases and becomes zero when spring attains its natural length. At this time masses already have some velocities. Due to this masses apply compressive force on both sides of spring. In order to resist this compressions spring also applies internal resistive force on both sides to stop the compression. These resistive forces slowly grows and decrease the velocities until they become zero. This cause the potential energy of spring to grow. And the oscillation repeats.

2.Forces are acting on spring are internal forces since they are generated by energy stored in spring.Also, Spring and masses does forms a system because external forces is zero.

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Now, the total work done by the internal elastic forces is zero because there are equal and opposite forces on each side of the spring. Since they move in the same direction, their work cancels out.

Neither work nor kinetic energy has spatial direction. Negative work is not work in the negative direction. Instead, it tracks whether mechanical power is being transferred to (positive) or from (negative) whatever energy repository we happen to be considering.

For a symmetrical spring mass system, the work done on both masses by the spring is positive and double the work done on either mass. (Energy is going from the spring potential to the mass's kinetic energy for bith masses.) In a completely identical statement, the work done on the spring by both the masses is negative and twice the work done by either mass.

An addendum: if you approach this from the standpoint of the work-energy theorem, properly accounting for which forces act on which object in which direction, you will find forces acting on the masses in the direction of movement (which you can integrate for positive work) and the third law reaction forces acting on the other half of each third law pair - the spring - in the direction opposite movement. Integrating will get you negative work done on the spring, which we sum with the positive work on the masses for a total of zero, conserving energy and properly showing the transfer of system energy from the configuration of the spring to the movement of the masses. I find that this approach requires extra mental effort and special care to avoid errors in thinking, but it isn't wrong.

g s
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If you're trying to determine how energy moves, then I think you're going to confuse yourself if you try to make everything part of one system.

If the system is the masses and the spring together, then the motion of the masses and the energy in the spring are just different forms of internal energy. I would say that the kinetic energy of the system is constant because there are no external forces acting on it.

Which forces do work to give the masses kinetic energy?

If considering the masses individually, the spring. If considering the mass/spring system, nothing.

BowlOfRed
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