1

Is there a standard that propose voltage/current thresholds for GPIO in automotive ECUs. Something that would define ViH, ViL, Iil, IiH, etc for 12V or 24V networks.

I have good intuition of what is needed by working with different types of controllers, but I'd like to find something more rigorous to back up a design. The best I found is IEC-61131-2 which defines these levels for PLC.

  • This question is unclear, automotive MCU's/PLC's GPIO's usually top out at 5V. If your using a communication protocol like CAN, then the levels are defined by the communication standard. – Voltage Spike Aug 06 '19 at 18:04
  • Hmm as far as I know, automotive ECUs usually have IOs referenced to the 12V/24V batteries, driven with either low side or high side drivers. – Pier-Yves Lessard Aug 06 '19 at 18:05
  • Name one automotive ECU that has GPIO's that are 12V tolerant. – Voltage Spike Aug 06 '19 at 18:06
  • Most of them? Look at Parker CM410. I won't name all brands. My question refer to a standard that defines voltage levels that goes up to 60V, I recommend you take the time to look at it – Pier-Yves Lessard Aug 06 '19 at 18:17
  • CM0410, can't edit my previous comment – Pier-Yves Lessard Aug 06 '19 at 18:23
  • They are using voltage translation from the PLC or MCU to the outside world. If you want to open up the box and see what transceivers or level shifting they are using. – Voltage Spike Aug 06 '19 at 18:29
  • Of course they do voltage translation, nobody would expose an MCU IO to the outside world in this industry. I doubt it is done via a single IC, most likely a circuitry designed in-house. In any case, their spec are all available, that's why I said I know what's required. But the question is about finding a document published by a normative organization. – Pier-Yves Lessard Aug 06 '19 at 18:39

2 Answers2

1

There are no GPIO standards in the automotive world to speak of - they are not necessary. Even if I gave you one, I am absolutely sure that you wouldn't be able to meaningfully use it.

That's because discrete signals aren't designed in the way you seem to think they are: they are all purpose-designed inputs and outputs, there's nothing general-purpose about them. Anything general-purpose would use a standardized digital bus! That's what those are for!

Just because an input or output may have two logic states doesn't mean that there's any other commonality between them - because it'd be pointless. The remote dumb nodes (sensors and actuators) are the cost drivers, so they are designed to be cheap, and the control module has to deal with it - because it costs comparatively nothing to adapt a control module input or output to interface with those. Any sort of premature standardization would only drive up the costs of the nodes, while not appreciably lowering the cost of the control module (ECU, etc.).

With PLC I/O it's a different world, because each PLC application is bespoke, with low volumes, and nobody really cranks out a million identical machines with a PLC in them (unlike cars!). To do so would be a waste of money: it'd be cheaper with bespoke I/O, tailored to the sensors and loads. PLCs and the standards they mandate make sense in custom low-volume integrations, and solutions that evolve over time, like on a factory floor.

In automotive world, digital outputs are used to drive actual loads, and current capacity is the most important spec, while voltage drop is usually secondary, i.e. as long as the driver won't self-immolate while delivering rated load power, it's if not OK then at least functional. The outputs are designed to drive particular loads, and aren't treated like some general-purpose GPIO.

Digital inputs are mostly captured within a module, e.g. on my 15-year-old car there's exactly zero GPIO lines running on accessible wires - by GPIO I mean I/O that was designed to be "general purpose" and potentically could serve various application-specific uses. It just doesn't work that way. E.g. all buttons interface directly to network nodes.

Sensors with discrete outputs (such as an oil pressure switch) are subject to their own specifications, and it's up to the consumer of the signal to deal with it. Typically, the levels are determined at least partially by the signal sink. E.g. a short-to-chassis pressure sensor or overtemperature sensor's "idle high" voltage level depends on what the ECU feeds on that line - it may even be a voltage present only sporadically! - whereas the "active low" level depends on the current source setpoint in the ECU, coupled with various parasitic resistances along the circuit. The sensor itself is just a switch, not some GPIO signal source.

Same goes for discrete signals that feed, say, ignition coils: they are not universal GPIO outputs, but are designed specifically to drive a particular ignition module, or a specific range of them, and are designed to the spec of those modules.

0

The SAE SENT protocol defines an interface standard for automotive sensors.

More here: https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j2716_201001/

hacktastical
  • 53,912
  • 2
  • 49
  • 152
  • Interesting, thank you. SENT is more of a communication protocol rather than a GPIO standard. That is not exactly what I am looking for, though. – Pier-Yves Lessard Aug 06 '19 at 18:22
  • Automotive platforms are a hodgepodge of protocols and signaling methods, tailored for their use. I think that focusing on an attempt to capture a ‘standard’ for something as low-level as GPIO is not the right approach. – hacktastical Aug 06 '19 at 19:01
  • You may be right. Honestly, I have the feeling I would have already found such document if it existed. – Pier-Yves Lessard Aug 06 '19 at 19:06
  • 1
    There is a general trend in automotive to try to reduce wiring to save weight and cost. At the same time, there is pressure to accommodate high-rate data from sources like cameras. Then there is the trend to integrate infotainment systems with the platform (which is fraught with security issues - see FCA’s fiasco with Rockford Fosgate.) These trends all work against using GPIO as a basic approach, except at the very lowest level. Even then, there is an assumed adaptation layer between the MCU and what it interfaces with. SENT is an initative to harmonize sensors but it’s only a small piece. – hacktastical Aug 06 '19 at 19:47
  • I partially agree. There is also a trend to go towards more safe desings and I'm talking about ISO-26262 here. Critical mechanical assemblies require highest reliability for safety and often an IO feedback is cheaper and more simple (thus less failure probabilities) than some sort of transceiver. I don't think it is meant to disappear. – Pier-Yves Lessard Aug 06 '19 at 20:32
  • Machine learning (my current discipline) must give you nightmares then ;-) – hacktastical Aug 06 '19 at 20:41