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A stationary observer sees two boxes A and B explode at the same time. A is close to the stationary observer and B is far away. For a moving observer moving towards the two boxes, they will see B explode first and then A. Why does the moving observer intuitively see Box B explode before Box A? I understand the math being the Lorentz Transformation but not why this happens intuitively. A simple diagram of what I mean is shown below.

(Moving ->) (Stationary) (A) (B)

For example, If A is at $x=0, t=0$, and B is at $x=c, t=0$, and the moving observer is moving at $c\sqrt{3}/2$. Using $t' = γ (t - vx/c^2$), we get that for the moving observer, A explodes at $t=0$ and B explodes at $t=-\sqrt{3}$. Why does B explode before A for the moving observer?

5 Answers5

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  1. Treat the boxes as stationary. You are running toward them from the left as in your picture.

  2. Your cousin Jeter is running in the same direction, at the same speed, but is way ahead of you. Jeter is stationary with respect to you, so you must agree on which events are simultaneous. So from here on we can ignore your observations and concentrate on Jeter's.

  3. According to an observer in the box frame, Jeter just happens to be exactly midway between the boxes at the single moment when they both explode.

  4. According to that observer in the box-frame, Jeter is running toward Box B and away from Box A, so he receives the light from B before he receives the light from A. This is verifiable, and something all observers must agree on.

  5. As far as Jeter is concerned, he is not moving; the boxes are. But the movement of the boxes after the explosions is irrelevant to when he receives the light from those explosions. All he knows is that the explosions occurred equally far away, and the light from B arrived first. That means the B explosion must have happened first.

WillO
  • 18,387
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First, note that when we discuss "observers" here we really mean inertial frames of reference. These can never be defined by any single observer.

So, thinking visually about this, let's first imagine several observers, all equidistant from one another, moving with velocity $v$. I'm taking $c=1$ in the diagrams here, because it makes them simpler to understand: Observers representing reference frame moving wrt boxes

Let these observers be the representatives of the moving reference frame, that is, they are moving with respect to the frame where the boxes are stationary.

Now let us consider, how they may synchronize their clocks. We employ a very simple procedure. Take the observer corresponding to the worldline $t=\frac{1}{v}(x-3)$, and have him at a certain moment send light rays to his front and to his back directions together:

An observer sends forward and backwards light rays, as part of a clock sync procedure

Now, the observers that are shown as getting the light signal, must agree to set their clocks to the same time, which is some $t_0'$, because they know this light signal came from an observer that is at all times an equal distance from both of them.

By this, we can already define one line on which we postulate every event must be simultaneous for the moving frame:

Postulated line of simultaneity in the moving frame

So we want to say this purple dashed line is indeed a line passing through all events that are measured to occur at a single instant $t_0'$, in the frame that's moving relative to the boxes.

But it's not clear yet, why for example the point indicated by $?$ in the diagram should also be assigned the same time $t_0'$ to which we said both indicated observers set their clocks.

It's a good exercise then to show, that if we compute the coordinates of that point and work where a light signal would have arrived from if we traced it "backwards", we would have found the following result (only visually shown here, not computationally): Diagram showing line of simultaneity indeed agrees with our initial assumption

What we see is that it is precisely correct that if both observers corresponding to $t=\frac{1}{v}(x-2)$ and $t=\frac{1}{v}(x-3)$ sent a light signal in the same manner at the same instant where that instant is exactly defined by a line with the same slope as we found before, it would get to the observer in front and to the back of them at the same instant which is again defined by a line of identical slope.

To summarize this part, we see that the way we have identified the lines of simultaneity of the inertial frame that's moving relative to the boxes, is consistent with how the observers in this frame can ensure that all of their clocks are synchronized, and we have verified that these lines of simultaneity have a specific slope, that we have managed to identify via the above procedure.

Now, we're ready to talk about the exploding boxes. In the rest frame of the boxes the situation is simple:

Exploding boxes in their rest frame

I've taken here that both explosions occur at the same instant in their rest frame, corresponding to coordinate time $t=1$. In this frame, box $A$ is stationary at $x=1$, and box $B$ is stationary at $x=3$.

How will the moving frame measure these events?

Exploding boxes assigned time coordinates by moving frame

After the work done above, we immediately see that the line of simultaneity corresponding to box $B$ exploding, which is farther from the origin, is $t'=0$, which precedes the line of simultaneity corresponding to box $A$ which is closer to the origin, which is some $t'$ such that $t'>0$. Hence we see the moving frame assigns a later time to the explosion of box $A$ which is closer to the origin.

Why do we assert that box $B$ exploded at $t'=0$? Because by assumption here we take that both frames agree on their origin, in other words the event in the boxes frame $(t,x)=(0,0)$ is defined such that it has the same coordinates in the relatively moving frame $(t',x')=(0,0)$, which can also be verified via the Lorentz transformations.

Again for emphasis, being closer/farther from the origin is not the same thing as considering which things are closer or farther from any single observer. Frames are always taken to be composed of many (infinite, in fact) observers, all carrying synchronous clocks and having their assigned positions relative to an agreed origin. If you replace the word "frame" with "observer", you must keep in mind that it is only an "observer" in the sense of someone who has access to all this data, but in practice, this data can only be collected by stationing actual observers or measuring instruments all across space.

Because you've asked for an intuition, I've focused on visual arguments via the above spacetime diagrams and almost completely avoided relating the above to the Lorentz transformations. I highly recommend however that you connect this intuitive picture to the Lorentz transformations.

A good starting point will be noting that the lines of simultaneity in the frame that's moving relative to the boxes, are indeed given by:

$$ t'_0 = \gamma(t-vx) \Longrightarrow t=vx+\frac{t'_0}{\gamma} $$

Thus the slopes of the lines of simultaneity are precisely $v$ where again recall that we're working in units where $c=1$.

Note that interestingly, in this visual explanation we were able to derive the correct slope without any reference to the Lorentz transformation. That's because, as you can see, the $\gamma$ factor only comes in as a "calibration" factor, relating the rate of passage of time in both frames. Thus note that from the above procedure alone, we cannot deduce both $t_0'$ and $\gamma$ but only their ratio. To find the relative rate of passage of time in the moving frame, we need the full Lorentz transformation, the derivation of which requires several more assumptions than just the ones we made in the above clock synchronization procedure.

(All of the above diagrams were created via Geogebra).

Amit
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A very brief answer:

The two postulates are the principle of relativity and the speed of light is constant. You probably agree that the mathematics shows your result given those two postulates. But it isn't intuitive. The second postulate is counter intuitive. It contradicts what your intuition tells you about how the universe works.

However, special relativity can be derived from other starting postulates. If you agree that space is isotropic and homogeneous, you can derive the Lorentz Transformations. But the speed c that is constant is not determined from just this. You just know that some speed is constant. It could be infinitely fast, in which case you get Newtonian mechanics.

Basing it on isotropy and homogeneity is a step toward making it intuitive. Suppose you do some experiment. It isn't a stretch to imagine that if you rotate the apparatus or move it to a different location, you would get the same result.

But you still have to swallow that Newtonian mechanics isn't how the universe works. See Do we know why there is a speed limit in our universe?

mmesser314
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Your wording in the question is slightly ambiguous, in a way that makes the situation much more counter-intuitive than it really is; so simply clarifying that ambiguity may help your intuition here. Specifically, you write:

A stationary observer sees two boxes A and B explode at the same time. A is close to the stationary observer and B is far away. For a moving observer moving towards the two boxes, they will see B explode first and then A. Why does the moving observer intuitively see Box B explode before Box A? I understand the math being the Lorentz Transformation but not why this happens intuitively.

Saying that an observer sees the two explosions at the same time (or A before B, etc) can either mean:

  1. the light from the two explosions reaches them at the same time;

  2. based on when the light reaches them, they judge that the explosions were (in their frame) simultaneous.

From your description of the scenario, it’s clear you mean (2) throughout. But the wording with “sees” strongly primes the intuition for reading (1) — which indeed makes the conclusion counterintuitive, since under this interpretation, the conclusion would be wrong! If they observe the explosion simultaneously in sense (2), then that means the light from the near explosion reached them before the light from the further explosion.

WillO’s answer gives a good intuitive explanation of why, under reading (2), the conclusion is correct. But I suspect your difficulty with the intuition may also be partly due to subconsciously conflating your intuition for the readings (1) and (2). Disentangle these, think what observing simultaneously in sense (2) means about when the light actually reaches the observer, and the conclusion may seem more reasonable.

PLL
  • 103
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Your wording is imprecise. The natural interpretation of "when the observer sees the explosion" is "the time at which the light from the explosion reaches the observer". If that is what is meant, then both observers see the close explosion happening before the far explosion.

What differs in relativity is the time-coordinate that each observer assigns to the boxes exploding. The "stationary" observer says that the "moving" observer moved towards B, and so saw the explosion before the "stationary" observer. Since every observer agrees on what happened, just not on the coordinate system to use, the "moving" observer also agrees that they saw the explosion before the "stationary" observer did. Since the "moving" observer doesn't agree that they are moving, they ascribe this earlier time to the explosion having an earlier time-coordinate.

If A is at x=0,t=0 , and B is at x=c,t=0 , and the moving observer is moving at c3–√/2 . Using t′=γ(t−vx/c2 ), we get that for the moving observer, A explodes at t=0 and B explodes at t=−3–√ . Why does B explode before A for the moving observer?

No, no, no. This is a common misunderstanding of relativity. x is the space-coordinate that the "stationary" observer assigns to events. t is the time-coordinate that the "stationary" observer assigns to events. Both observers agree that the explosion at B happened at t=0, because both observers agree on what time-coordinate the "stationary" observer is assigning. The "moving" observer doesn't say that B exploded at $t= \frac {\sqrt 3} 2$, they say that it happened at $t'= \frac {\sqrt 3} 2$. That is, the "moving" observer says that their time-coordinate of the explosion is $\frac {\sqrt 3} 2$. Both observers agree that they have different time-coordinates, both agree that the time-coordinate $t$ is $0$, and both agree that the time-coordinate $t'$ is $\frac {\sqrt 3} 2$.

Imagine if one person is measuring a temperature using Celsius and another is measuring using Fahrenheit. The first one gets 30 and the second one gets 86. The only difference between the two observers is the number that they are using to measure the temperature. They both agree on what the actual temperature is. The first one agrees that the temperature, if measured in Fahrenheit, is 86°F, and the second one agrees that the temperature, if measured in Celcsius, is 30°C. Similarly, all observers agree on when events happen. It's just that they are using different coordinate systems, and so disagree as to what number to assign to represent the time that the event happened.